Hello Everyone! Part V of my commentary to the Marshall/Gordon podcast is now available!
Here, I continue to comment upon the discussion between Marshall and Gordon on the third part of the secret of Fátima.
There is also a discussion on the controversial figure of Malachi Martin. Yes, I quoted from his book The Jesuits in my book On the Third Part of the Secret of Fátima. Can you figure out why? First person to contact me with the correct answer will win a prize!
Transcript is below. Part VI to be released soon!
(30:09 – 32:53) à Marshall continues the discussion of the third part of the secret of Fátima. He begins by characterizing the revealed “3A” text from the Vatican in the year 2000 as being the result of a “mental reservation.” In other words, there was the alleged 3B text that the Vatican is hiding and denying through a mental reservation. Marshall also cites the controversial figure of Malachi Martin, saying that the 3A text was opened in 1960. It wasn’t. All reputable sources, including Pope John XXIII’s private secretary (Msgr. Loris Capovilla), unanimously agree that it was opened for the first time by Pope John XXIII in August, 1959 at Castel Gandolfo.
Marshall also says the text was opened in the presence of translators and others. To the best of our knowledge, there was only one translator, Msgr. Paolo Tavares, a minutante of the Secretariat of State, who was summoned to Castel Gandolfo to help John XXIII make sense of the Portuguese text. Marshall admits that his knowledge is a bit sketchy and asks Gordon to jump in and tell the story. Gordon upholds two translators.
Gordon also repeats an old claim that attributes a quote to John XXIII. Allegedly, he stated that the third part “does not concern the years of my pontificate.” This statement was never verified, and, in fact, indirectly denied by Loris Capovilla. Capovilla took a dictation from Pope John who only commented that he leaves the matter to his successors. That is not quite the same thing as saying “does not concern the years of my pontificate.”
Gordon then discusses the date of 1960 on the envelopes containing the third part of the secret. Gordon says that it is not clear whether it was Our Lady or Sr. Lúcia who gave the order that the text was not to be opened until 1960. I’m not sure why Gordon would say this because Sr. Lúcia was quite clear in her handwritten note on the envelopes that it was “the express order of Our Lady.”
Marshall quickly follows up this discussion by asking Gordon whether the text said “by” or “on” that date of 1960. Let us be clear, the Portuguese is “que só pode aberto em 1960” (it can only be opened in 1960). Those are, we now know, the exact words of Our Lady as recorded by Sr. Lúcia in her private diary. It is not clear to me why this important fact has been left out of the discussion. Instead, Gordon continues his discussion by taking a swipe at the organization Catholic Answers. This organization interprets the 1960 date as being Sr. Lúcia’s stipulation, not Our Lady’s.
(32:53 – ) à After some further discussion, Gordon talks about how even the famous Roman exorcist, Fr. Gabriele Amorth, affirmed that there was more to the third part of the secret. Gordon states that Amorth knew this from the famous stigmatist St. Padre Pio.
It is difficult to assess where Gordon is coming from here because he does not cite any particular source. As best as I can tell, he seems to be building upon an interview that Fr. Amorth gave to the Spanish writer José María Zavala that became news back in 2017. I have written about Zavala and refer the viewer to my web site. I also think that it is important to go back and read what Amorth actually said vs. how Gordon has characterized here the remarks.
(35:24 – ) à Gordon talks about the year 1960 and an “anonymous source” that told everyone that the text of the third part of the secret will never be revealed. Then, the Vatican denies ever having said such a thing. Gordon seems to be referring to the matter of the February, 1960 news article that announced the non-publication of the third part of the secret. I covered this matter in On the Third Part of the Secret of Fátima. Gordon is simply flying blind with the facts.
It was not an official press release from the Vatican, it was an anonymous article written by someone in the United Press International, there’s no name. I’ve seen a copy of the Portuguese article that I received from the Archives of Fátima but no one even knows who wrote it. No one disputes that it’s an authentic article, it was published, we just don’t know the exact provenance of it. Who wrote it, why it was written, who the person’s sources were, etc. I have a somewhat extensive examination of this document in my book.
(35:56) Marshall brings up the matter of the Vatican attributing the assassination attempt on the life of Pope John Paul II as the fulfillment of the third part of the secret. The Vatican said a lot more than what Marshall has brought up here. My book now has the transcripts of what was said back on June 26, 2000. People can go read it for themselves. I will only say here that Marshall has not characterized correctly what was said.
(36:14) Vennári, not Vennarí.
(38:00) More talk about Malachi Martin. Marshall asks that anything to do with Martin falls into the category of “if he can be believed” (39:16). Marshall’s characterization is quite fitting. He and Gordon had been talking, up to this point, about Martin’s book Windswept House. I’ve read this book 2 or 3 times myself and have found its material on Fátima to be quite lacking. Of course, one may argue that he embellished for the sake of telling a story, but I am quite reserved otherwise on Martin. Quite frankly, I don’t believe a word he says about having been privy to the third part of the secret.
At this point of their discussion, Marshall & Gordon devolve into some purely speculative matters concerning things happening in the Church in the 60s. I don’t believe there is much need for comment here.
Marshall brings up the satanic rites that are brought up in Windswept House. There has been some chatter about this matter since June, 2019. I hear that the girl, now a woman, who was raped during the ritual told her story to Martin and he put it into the book. Whether or not the ritual actually happened, though, is a matter for debate.
(End at 39:53)
In the next video, we’ll pick up where Marshall & Gordon leave off.